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I read thought this whole thing to try and make a valid point but it seems that they have all been taken up.
So i'll say i love the idea but i do think that realism should = gameplay as if it's too realistic then some people would start having mental breakdowns and such. haha.
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I don´t see point in having specific "weapon skills", You need to learn how each gun shoots this is done by shooting and seeing what happens. Skills like strength could improve by handling guns and other physical activity so it would allow you to aim more steadily so the gun would sway less when aimed for instance. If you acquire a new weapon you would need to test it what the bullet trajectory is on something. That is the way you would in time improve the skill to handle that weapon. Some for instance will learn fast how some sniper rifle fires and they would be skilled to handle that weapon, without the need of having seperate skill stat for it.
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This could take the form of a simple xp counter for each weapon. The more xp (in whatever form you want to add that into it) the weapon gains, the better it does - less recoil, more damage, better accuracy.

Of course, this shouldn't be a visible counter for the player. It should just feel like you're getting better over time. If you grab a rifle and only get 2/5 headshots at the start, over time you start t notice that more and more are hitting as the rifle's accuracy is improved incrementally - it feels like you're getting better with the weapon, but its stats are simply improving.
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If weapon familiarity is in the game then I hope there are zero visible stats on the hud or even the menu. It should be a system where the gameplay shows the stats not an interface.
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Zag wrote:
The idea of degrading stats over non-use -- during gameplay only, when you exit a world or the game your character basically stays unchanged -- is something we want to do for a LOT of things, not just weapons. But on the topic of weapons...



if I am killing Zombies every cople of days I am not going to get rusty, If I do not go to the range for 2 yrs , yeah my 1st 100 shots might be off a little .....
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I vote for borderlands oblivion risen system. Improves with use. You base skill is set by job or some other factor. The more skill the more things you can do with it. Less sway. High chance of dismemberment. Faster reload. Etc
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Proficiency with one type of weapon would become overpowered and make things unbalanced. I'm assuming that Sandswept Studios is trying to make things balanced to make a successful game. If this would be added in, it should be with each individual gun that will be added to the game.
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They should make a general proficiency and a specific weapon proficiency, that lowers when not used after x game time and with according buffs and debuffs.

For example, your general proficiency with one handed blades is quite high, which lets you make more stamina-efficient swings, less wide slashes and faster stabs (the 2 last ones would improve safety in combat with 1-2 zeds at a time, making it harder for them to grab your arms), but if you find and start using a large two handed sledgehammer with your initial very poor proficiency, you'd be using a lot more stamina with each swing as well as start loosing your balance after prolonged swinging, not to mention very wide sweeps which would let zombies approach while you were recovering.

Same approach could be done regarding weapons, if you're only used to firing pistols, if you find a light machine gun by chance, it would have a hell of a kick not to mention bruise your shoulder/hip/stomach.
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I think people have covered just about any point I'd make, so I just want to add my voice to support individual weapon familiarity ratings. I don't know how you'd track what gives you skill or not, certainly not just zombie kills anyway. In real life you get it from practice: target shooting, trigger control, speed reload drills, combat drills, and so on. In reality, your skill plateaus too until you start challenging yourself more and more.

Juice wrote:
Firearms suggestions
-Adjusting sights
-Correct ammo system
-Perhaps a cleaning system?

I agree with the sentiment, but these arguments would be better made over on the Suggestion subforum.

Juice wrote:
Most medium-long range weapons and some pistols have adjustable iron sights, such as the AK and its variants, that need to be re-adjusted when aiming from enemies at short ranges to enemies that are 900 yards away from you, perhaps this could be done in-game?

I support this idea, though it is off-topic. Fun fact, though: at 900 yards, the drop on that AK-47's bullet is around 50 feet. Ouch. The higher gradations on those leaf sights are artifacts of the outdated battlefield tactic of infantry volley fire. An individual would be lucky to hit anything other than the ground.
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I would like it, it makes it alot more realistic. Also makes sense.
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Mortal Online had this crazy skill system where every skill raised other skills that were related to it. I know that game is horrible, but I think something similar would make sense.

Firing bolt action rifle X would raise your skill in:
bolt action rifle X's individual skill level by a significant amount
bolt action rifles in general by a moderate amount
riles by a slight amount
firearms by a very small amount
perhaps a tiny amount to weapons of the same caliber or made by the same manufacturer

I personally don't shoot guns, but I can compare it to something I do a lot, which is playing instruments. I have guitars, a ukulele, a keyboard, etc. I can play my acoustic and electric guitar, but they do, in a sense, call for different technique. Practicing one helps me when I play the other, but not everything I learn/know translates. Even less of the knowledge I gain musically transfers over to keyboard, but I still have a headstart over someone who has never played an instrument, because I know about music fundamentals, and so on. I go through phases where I don't play one instrument for a year, pick it up, and still can play it, because skill degradation is not terribly present in real life, but I'll get to that later.

I don't think this game needs a lot of different skills and numbers flying around. You'll naturally get better at firing weapons in-game because you'll be spending a lot of time practicing doing that. The same way that I don't need to slowly and passively become a better shot in Call of Duty. The more I play, the better I get. If I take a break, I might get a little rusty, but I don't forget everything I know, which leads me to my next point:

Skill degradation is annoying. If some kind of skill system IS implemented, I hope I can only forget a certain degree of what I learn. With things like shooting a gun, I imagine it becomes almost instinctive after a while. I know people have "sorry, I haven't done this in a while" moments, but very rarely does someone who used to be adept at a given skill recess to the point where they have absolutely no expertise in it whatsoever, no matter how much time goes by. Obviously with things like fitness, that's something you constantly have to stay on top of, I'm only talking about degradation of skills/expertise.

I think the easiest (and most realistic) way to handle this is just to let your skill meter exist in the real world. You have to remember that you have as much experience firing a virtual weapon as anyone else in the game does when you start, and veterans will be able to make better shots than noobs. It's true for any game. I don't see why this kind of system is needed.
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Vegetable wrote:
Mortal Online had this crazy skill system where every skill raised other skills that were related to it. I know that game is horrible, but I think something similar would make sense.

Firing bolt action rifle X would raise your skill in:
bolt action rifle X's individual skill level by a significant amount
bolt action rifles in general by a moderate amount
riles by a slight amount
firearms by a very small amount
perhaps a tiny amount to weapons of the same caliber or made by the same manufacturer

I personally don't shoot guns, but I can compare it to something I do a lot, which is playing instruments. I have guitars, a ukulele, a keyboard, etc. I can play my acoustic and electric guitar, but they do, in a sense, call for different technique. Practicing one helps me when I play the other, but not everything I learn/know translates. Even less of the knowledge I gain musically transfers over to keyboard, but I still have a headstart over someone who has never played an instrument, because I know about music fundamentals, and so on. I go through phases where I don't play one instrument for a year, pick it up, and still can play it, because skill degradation is not terribly present in real life, but I'll get to that later.

I don't think this game needs a lot of different skills and numbers flying around. You'll naturally get better at firing weapons in-game because you'll be spending a lot of time practicing doing that. The same way that I don't need to slowly and passively become a better shot in Call of Duty. The more I play, the better I get. If I take a break, I might get a little rusty, but I don't forget everything I know, which leads me to my next point:

Skill degradation is annoying. If some kind of skill system IS implemented, I hope I can only forget a certain degree of what I learn. With things like shooting a gun, I imagine it becomes almost instinctive after a while. I know people have "sorry, I haven't done this in a while" moments, but very rarely does someone who used to be adept at a given skill recess to the point where they have absolutely no expertise in it whatsoever, no matter how much time goes by. Obviously with things like fitness, that's something you constantly have to stay on top of, I'm only talking about degradation of skills/expertise.

I think the easiest (and most realistic) way to handle this is just to let your skill meter exist in the real world. You have to remember that you have as much experience firing a virtual weapon as anyone else in the game does when you start, and veterans will be able to make better shots than noobs. It's true for any game. I don't see why this kind of system is needed.

Skill degradation is what happens in real life. If you sit on your sweep all day, you will be less fit. If you're a builder and you don't build anything for a while, you lose some of your skill. I think you're overestimating the amount skills will be decreasing overtime. Don't forget that you won't be shooting a whole lot unless you're in a big party with a lot of resources. Also, a character with a higher shooting skill would probably jam his gun less, have a steadier aim, and know how to fix the gun better if it does jam, for example.

Just one question, how will shooting a shotgun made by Guns, Inc. make me better with Guns, Inc.'s sniper rifle? Maybe the same caliber would make sense, but not same manufacturer.
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I think sights should have skill levels to them, because obviusly in real life you would get adjusted to lets say a HOLO sight, if you move to your Iron Sights, you wont be adjusted and will be less accurate.
So lets say you get an M16 with an ACOG, and you have had said gun for several days in-game time, so you build up skill for that sight, and then you lose it do to ammo loss, dont like it, any number reasons, and then you cant find another gun except anything with only Iron Sights, you use it and maybe get a debuff ( with an off mode of course ) Just an idea
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Salmon wrote:
I think sights should have skill levels to them, because obviusly in real life you would get adjusted to lets say a HOLO sight, if you move to your Iron Sights, you wont be adjusted and will be less accurate.
So lets say you get an M16 with an ACOG, and you have had said gun for several days in-game time, so you build up skill for that sight, and then you lose it do to ammo loss, dont like it, any number reasons, and then you cant find another gun except anything with only Iron Sights, you use it and maybe get a debuff ( with an off mode of course ) Just an idea


That should be based on the Player, rather than the character.
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I like the idea, it sounds pretty straightforward, but lets look at this how fallout did, albeit terribly, they have one skill for guns... 'Guns', in the game, every weapon recoils differently, leading to a different time between each shot and decreased accuracy if firing constantly.
i.e. every weapon fires differently to each other, so if you were firing a 44. magnum, the recoil would be substantial, and, over time, as you got used to the weapon, you'd learn how best to control, handle, and fire it. The same goes for if you had, say, an M1 Garand, which is unlikely but still, it wouldn't recoil as much, but you'd still learn how to gain a better firing position to be able to shoot faster than if you were completely green to the weapon.

The same goes, i think, for every single weapon like object in the game, as you get used to it, You miss less often, you can fire/hit faster, and with more strength, but this shouldn't be a quick process, i've been playing the drums for 2 years now and i'm only just able to call myself good, however, 2 years of ingame time may account to a few more shots a minute/second or more damage.

I think it should depend on your playstyle aswell, for instance, if you're laying back with a rifle, picking walkers off before they get within 1000ft. of you, you could find your accuracy going up but your damage staying the same, whereas, if you like to get up close and fire, then you'd find your damage or rate of fire going up as you have the calm to hit the head quicker and stronger.
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Ithink that the weapon that would most benefit from familiarity would be a bow, because you would have to get used to the drop and aiming, also drawing another arrow faster, these would be the hardest to get used to, because a bow has no sights and the most drop, also you have to reload every shot. But once you get used to it the bow would be much better :)
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Serge9798 wrote:
Ithink that the weapon that would most benefit from familiarity would be a bow, because you would have to get used to the drop and aiming, also drawing another arrow faster, these would be the hardest to get used to, because a bow has no sights and the most drop, also you have to reload every shot. But once you get used to it the bow would be much better :)


I have this cool little sight for my bow. I've seen other too.
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ScottKrieger2015 wrote:
Serge9798 wrote:
Ithink that the weapon that would most benefit from familiarity would be a bow, because you would have to get used to the drop and aiming, also drawing another arrow faster, these would be the hardest to get used to, because a bow has no sights and the most drop, also you have to reload every shot. But once you get used to it the bow would be much better :)


I have this cool little sight for my bow. I've seen other too.

Really?! I didn't know they had sights :P that would be cool to find in the game
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H4Z4RD wrote:
Since it doesn't sound like skills are going to be the typical level up (plus thats kinda unoriginal, and I no longer like it) I have another idea.

Its call weapon familiarity. The more you use a gun or melee weapon (specific weapon, not class) the better you become with it. You wont be able to max out a ton of different guns, become if you dont use them the skill will go down.

Affects of being familiar include:
Less recoil
Faster reload
Faster aiming
Faster weapon drawing (assuming we can have weapons we can easily switch between)


Fits into my suggestion of 'tolerances' and habits. Your behaviors enhance and focus your gameplay. Using certain weapons or types of weapons like melee vs guns and then specifics like sharp vs blunt or specific guns... you would become more proficient with experience and habits.
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The reason I don't like the concept of weapon familiarity (though that doesn't mean I can't ever be persuaded) is due to the fact that it trumps player skill. If you're aiming a gun, and it has sway, that way shouldn't be worse because you haven't used that gun. That should come down to how the player moves their mouse to compensate.

For you PvPers out there, a system like this would mean that players who have been playing longer will always be able to out-perform you. Higher level or more experienced players should only win firefights or other types of combat because they are more skilled, not because their stats are just better.
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